Link: Co-Optimus Entry

Please keep all discussion of Borderlands for the XBox 360 in this thread.

What exactly will Co-op be like?

Is this an Action-RPG?

Nobody knows yet. Hopefully we'll get more information soon.

My friend brought over an old game magazine with a special on borderlands. I got to say the pre artwork made it look like madmax. Supposedly something like 3000 weapons. I wonder what the co op is like. But it could be lots of fun. The article was over a year old and mentioned co op. So it at least is not a late add on. Haven't heard any release details.

I just read new impressions IGN just posted, and something caught my eye...



So it's not complete character customization? -2 points



So it's not story-based? For me that means, that a good RPG -10 points



So it's like Sacred 2? Mindless action with a sentence or two for story? -10 points



So you can't jump into any vehicle you find? You have to go to a "special station"? -5 points



I know many here that love this, so +20 points


I just gotta figure out if this is going to be the game I thought it was...

This game sounds great. Can't wait.

We can't really say how the story elements will play into it with what we currently know. Being designed as an FPS doesn't preclude a good or in-depth story. It just means that the game engine was built as an FPS, and the world was designed around that. The stage doesn't direct the story. However as it's a post-apocalyptic style setting, I'd expect the story to suck regardless of how it's presented.

Also Sacred 2 does have a fairly deep story. I won't argue that it's a good story, but it is deep. I'll admit that Diablo/Diablo 2 do a much better job of making me feel like I'm doing something important though.

I'd personally give them points for having any form of customization. The only games I can think of that have full customization are City of Heroes/Villains and Saints Row.

I fully agree on the vehicles though. If I have to fight off a bunch of dudes that are trying to run me over, I should be able to take their ride.

considering this "FPS-RPG" genre is pretty new, i wouldn't expect it to have ALL the RPG elements you're looking for. that said, i think there is a deeper story and your quote from the IGN article is a bit out of context. all RPGs have lots of "kill x number of y" quests especially near the beginning. that's how you build up your stats and learn the game so you're not fumbling with stats and controls when you get to the juicy parts of the storyline. don't forget they've already revealed a major objective early on... to find out what's in that vault.

also, in one of the earlier videos, you can see two guys jump in a buggy who's owners they killed. i think the wording is a bit unclear. he probably meant to say you can customize and buy vehicles at special stations but you're not limited to those. i believe you can even hi-jack them while moving.

if borderland's character appearance customization is better than sacred 2, i'll be happy. if i remember right, the only thing you can do is pick from a few hair-dos and hair colors. and of course they always have to put some type of qualifier in their statement ("to a degree"). i'm guessing you're stuck w/ the 4 character models we've seen in screenshots but you'll be able to change skin tone, color, maybe some features (piercings, scars). i'd be happy with that.

It's not post-apocalyptic! There is/was no event that kill people. It's an isolated world with little progress in growth like the cities today. The world is still being explored and growing. It's just on the fringe.

I think of it more like Firefly, the Wild West in space. Except it's just one planet.

Also, Sacred 2 has an overall goal, stop the bad dude. Doesn't mean it's going to be an RPG like Mass Effect, KOTOR, Deus Ex, Fallout, or (with revulsion) Fallout 3.

They have mainly focused on the action which to me, as a consumer, means the story isn't a main point used to sell people.

Which is why it called a post-apocalyptic style. I realize there was no apocalypse, but the situation is similar. Barren wasteland. Crude metal signs. Dudes wearing gas masks but not shirts swing knives around. Buildings made out of sheet-metal. This game screams Mad Max. And Firefly wouldn't have been nearly as interesting if you took out the spaceship and half the crew and just left them on the planet where they built a statue of Jayne.

Sacred 2 throws a lot of plot in through quests. The problem in Sacred 2 is, you're dealing with 6 distinct characters who all have their own goals. To be like Mass Effect or KOTOR would require 6 distinct stories. To me KOTOR took the opposite extreme that you feel Sacred 2 did. To the point that it didn't even feel like I was playing a game. I was just watching a slow paced interactive movie.



And it isn't. They are focusing on the action. But that doesn't mean they didn't put a lot of work into the plot. We haven't really seen much of the game yet. It's entirely possible the story rocks and the marketing team just got distracted by all the pretty guns.

I think total customization is not necessary for a great co-op experience. Of all the best co-op games I can think of (besides MMO's) none of them have very deep customization. The grand daddy of them all, Diablo (of which this game is inspired from), had none. A non factor IMO.



Games do not need to be RPGs to be fun. The just need to be fun. RPGs do an excellent job of keeping you into the game the first time through, but they then lack in the replay value (something extremely important in co-op). Of all the co-op RPG and RPG-like games out there, IMO, the best are always the ones that are the most shallow. It's very hard to tell a great story, have a strong narrative, and be truly immersive when all the players experience things at their own pace and at different times.

Don't get me wrong, I truly LOVE a dramatic, well told story (a la Mass Effect), but I think those have a different place in gaming.



As Sacred 2 has shown by being so immensely popular among the co-op crowd (even though it's a mediocre game), this formula WORKS! Sounds to me that instead of going the Halo route where you play (one incredible story driven game) once and move on, that they are going for the game play aspects that keep gamers coming back for more. Instead of having a linear story that your friends have already played through and don't feel like playing again, they are opting for an open-ended, procedurally generated environment that is fun to keep coming back and play in making it natural that players will want to get together and play more. Just like Sacred 2.

What I know: I can't stop playing Sacred 2. Even more, I can't wait to get together with people to play because it's even better that way, and I don't see that ending anytime soon. That's a good thing, and a great sign for Borderlands.



So it's not GTA. Big deal. I'm sure if they wanted this to be a vehicle centric game (which it's not), you'd be able to get in any vehicle you want. A total non-issue to me.



But can two split-screen buddies join an online game a la L4D??


This game is shaping up to be everything I hoped it would be!

I largely agree with Ash except for one thing: I LOVE customizing my characters!! Granted it can be fun and purely cosmetic but still I like it.

TOTALLY agree on both of those points!!

I imagine there is little customization for a reason. If it's like Sacred 2, there is going to be a ton of loot to find that changes the look of your character. In games like that, the way you customize your character is to equip them with different loot, which if you like customization makes it even more fun.

This is being billed as a Action-RPG. So for the RPG I look at, I want an engaging and entertaining story. I don't need the full script, but I do need to see that character and story are not afterthoughts. That's my opinion for what I look for in a RPG.

I think what interests me about this game is the co-op. I know that applies to pretty much everyone here, but I like the idea of a class based co-op shooter. In most FPS co-op games, all the characters are pretty interchangeable as far as ability goes. From the previews I've read about this game, the class system makes the co-op sound a lot more fun. For example, I like playing support roles in most games, so I'd probably be a medic shooting healing bullets at whoever is out front charging into trouble. Yes, that's right, healing bullets.

Also, I find it odd that no one has mentioned the "over a half million weapons" thing yet. I know it's more like a half million permutations on several weapon types, but still.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that the vehicle stations are vehicle spawn points and not the only way you can enter them. I haven't heard anything about jacking a vehicle with people in it, but who knows.

While I'm not against classes and I like Borderlands as I believe it is.

For those "other" games, there's something to be said about knowing your buddy that has your back can do anything you can. Allows for better planning and allows players to change roles. For instance, I may be bored leading the pack, so I'll switch places and become more supportive.

Both system have their advantages, but class-based systems lend to good co-op games as much as class-less systems.

Don't get me wrong, I like class-less games too. I'm not saying one method is better than another. I'm simply saying there are way more class-less than class-based and it's nice to see another class-based one.

If this game has splitscreen online then it will be one of the best games this year for me. It is looking sweet and the fact that it has diablo style loot is even better.

Look forward to seeing you guys on this, probably going to put my preorder in on this soon.

that was probably the first thing the released about the game. i think everyone is tired of hearing it and are more interested in other things now. but don't get me wrong, its still very exciting

Classes can be good or bad. I like the idea of roles based on skill as long as it's not super restrictive. IE, anyone should be able to use a sniper rifle, but only the sniper can hold their breath to steady their shot. Anyone can shoot high velocity med-packs, but anyone who isn't the medic may end up hurting the target.



It's not theft if they're dead. Then it's looting.

I don't mind the game not being vehicle centric, but if there are drivable vehicles in the game, and the enemy comes at me in a vehicle, I should be able to use it when it's not being occupied. Otherwise the game is just taunting me.